Philip just got home from class tonight and we are sitting here watching Fox news coverage of the election. I can tell people at work are starting to really get to know me . . . . . Co-workers and patients have been asking me who I voted for a lot (it's a bit of a fascination for the Brits --- they all wish that they could vote for Obama as his far left views fit in quite well in Europe). I have no qualms of quickly telling them McCain. Today one of the therapists who hadn't seen me for awhile walked into the office and asked who I voted for but stopped herself and said, "you voted for McCain." I thought to myself "yay, they really know me!" (no, I don't go around saying "gosh, I don't pay taxes like this in America - or anything culturally or politically insensitive like that. . ) I'm very proud to hold the beliefs that I do. I'm glad the walk I walk on a daily basis is a reflection of my values.
I feel so blessed to have the opportunity to vote as many individuals have died so that I could have this privilidge. A lot of mothers have given their sons, wives have given their husbands and children* have given their fathers so that I could freely complete my ballot and have my vote counted. *and mothers have given their daughters, husbands have given their wives & children have given their mothers
I am going to be VERY surprised if I wake up to a McCain Palin win in the morning however the thought of President Elect Obama is _____ *Philip edited this part out as he has to serve respectfully and loyally under whoever the Commander-in-Chief is. . .*
It's interesting, I grew up in a politically conservative immediate family but was surrounded by a very liberal upbringing. I was thinking on the way home from work tonight that I am really struggling to think of a single classmate I graduated with who is not either liberal or VERRRRRRRY liberal (a few of my closest friends fall into the latter category). We are all very passionate about our views and get pretty riled up when so much as think about politics, so we just agree to disagree and don't debate (as none of us are likely to change our minds). Though in my very heated moments I notice that I have to work to restrain myself to tell them that if they really want to live in the not-so-nice reality of liberal policy that is played out in the real world they should just move to Europe and test-drive it for a few years. I pay taxes in a country where the government "takes care" (HA!) of everyone - it's NOT a fun thing. If you're sure a bleeding heart government is what you want, I encourage you to come over and check out how it really is -- a bloody mess!!!
6 comments:
Hi Joy! I really appreciate your comments since they are coming from someone who has now lived under the type of government our citizens want to jump into. From what I gather, my opinions on the efficiency of an all-consuming government are probably very similar to yours. :)
Go McPalin! :D
*Sorry I had some problems with the first post!*
Hi Joy,
It has been too long my dear. I check your blog occasionally (oddly with the same sensation I experience when I read about celebrity news) to keep up with how you and Philip are doing. I must say, with some degree of envy, that you and your husband live quite the cosmopolitan life-style! I’m also glad to hear that employment with the Newmarket House Clinic is going well. Based on your passion, intelligence and newly acquired experience, any counseling services agency would be a fool not to hire you in the future.
I read your last entry and spent some time contemplating whether I should respond. I often experience this dilemma when discussing politics with my family. To offer some degree of support, you were not the only kid raised in red house in a blue state. Currently, at least politically-minded, I am the black sheep of my family (though I have decided that my mom is probably a closet libertarian). During the election, I would receive almost weekly e-mails from TJ indicating a new flaw with the Obama-Biden campaign. Sometimes, I would respond with my own evidence and our exchanges would become rather heated. Sometimes, depending on the issue, I simply sighed and upheld the “agree to disagree” sentiment to maintain a positive relationship with a family member.
When I read your post, my reaction was equivalent to receiving yet another chain e-mail declaring that senator Obama was the anti-Christ. My heart raced, my fingers shook, and my ears became hot out of disbelief and anger. I would not consider myself a volatile person. In the least. I still avoid confrontation (though teaching has been a great catalyst for “growing a back-bone”) especially with friends and those I love in order to “keep the peace”. However, when I experience physiological reactions so strongly, I have an obligation, both to myself and to the rhetor, to respond. In regard to the latter, sometimes if I don’t approach the issue, I tend to not let go of it and it mars my relationship with that person. It is one of my many flaws as a human being.
Sigh. It seems that teaching is making me rather long-winded also. I remember reading an e-mail from you some time ago detailing your experiences with the British health care system. Obviously, based on your post as well, the system seems highly ineffective. However, I do question making a comparison between a nationalized British health-care system and a proposed American health care-system. Let me provide another example to clarify my reasoning. Consider the democratic election in Nigeria in 2007. Many Nigerians have lost faith in a democratic government because of the constant threat of coups, exclusions of popular candidates on voting tickets, and other problems. Unfortunately, this tribulation is not isolated in Nigeria but is common in many African countries struggling to create and maintain some degree of governmental stability. Based on these examples, would we conclude that democracy is a failure and has no practical applications? As patriots of the United States, I think we could both agree that the answer to the aforementioned question is a stern no.
Every piece legislation has its flaws, but I don’t believe that that is an excuse to let the status quo prevail (i.e., 47 million people without health insurance; half of all bankruptcy filings partly due to medical expenses). Personally, if I experience a medical emergency right now, under my thin university insurance plan, I will have basically no coverage and will probably spend the rest of my life battling credit woes. My family cannot afford to pay for my expenses for me and I certainly would not want to place that financial burden on them. I work hard. Very hard. And it angers me when people think that those who need government assistance are lazy or undeserving (I’m not implying that that is the argument you made). Yes, some of them are. But with our (I argue) natural sense of pride to be financially independent, I believe the majority are not. So, when I read comments like “if [you] really want to live in the not-so-nice reality of liberal policy that is played out in the real world [you] should just move to Europe and not mess up my life”, I think to myself, if you don’t want to make sacrifices (especially petty monetarily ones) to enact positive social change maybe you should move to Switzerland (notorious for their low rate of taxation) and not mess up my life. The bolded part of my argument was exactly how I internally responded when I read your post. What I wanted to demonstrate is how unconstructive and hurtful comments like the previous can be. As you can see, we are both impacted emotionally and are in an argumentative stalemate.
You are blessed. Extremely blessed to be healthy. You also work very hard to achieve your goals. Many people are not as fortunate as you are Joy. They also work very hard, but for whatever reason, they or someone in their family develops a brain tumor, has cancer, or develops another life-alternating health problem. Obviously, some people will take advantage of a newly developed system and it may be inconvenient for those, like yourself, who currently enjoy quality health-care coverage. However, I agree with our president elect that access to health-care is a right and should certainly not be exclusive to the privileged members of our society. I am prepared to make the monetary and personal sacrifices to make this dream a reality. The task ahead is long and arduous. It will contain faults. Perhaps it is naïve to hold such convictions but I believe, from the depths of my bleeding liberal heart, that it is the right thing to do.
Respectfully yours,
Sarah
I love you Sarah
*I had orignally had this as a main post but after a discussion with Philip we decided it would be best to relocate it here*
Sarah, I want you to know that I respect you and appreciate so much that we have a relationship in which it is safe to have a conversation like this. Thank you for all of the time and thought. I didn't intend any of what I said to be hurtful, it is just that, like you, I can get very emotional. I hadn't written on the election before, so it was kind of pent up emotion. I did a poor job of responding in the manner of love and grace that should be reflected in all interactions. I am sorry. The "not mess up my life" comment was out of order (and I will edit this) -- I was trying to say that I worry that people have a rose-colored view of how feel-good legislation actually plays out in the real world. Seeing very ill people refused funding day after day in the job I have shows me that upclose and personal.
I ABSOLUTELY agree that to whom much is given much is expected. I have never taken lightly the burden or responsibility to be a good steward of what Christ has entrusted me with. I was raised in a house where even where my parents' income would have easily made us eligible for gov't assistance we were still making a priority to give to others. Giving is so so so important to me. Before anything else is done with our income, giving and tithing happens first in our home. However, I don't think that it's the governments job to take. . .
A few thoughts ---
* In regards to healthcare with the military I am under a government-controlled healthcare system --- defintely not "quality" healthcare. Trust me. It is expensive. I have no say in who my doctor is. If I don't like / aren't comfortable with him/her it's just tough luck. Military hospitals are overcrowded. There are excruciatingly long waits. It's no picnic. I wouldn't wish our healthcare situation on anyone.
* Your example about Nigeria and democracy is very good. I completely agree that from one example we cannot say that all situations will look the same. However, the UK healthcare system faces the same woes that many countries throughout Europe (and Cuba) face with socialized healthcare. What I am seeing is not an isolated example.
* Even in the UK the rich pay for private healthcare, as the NHS system does not always provide the funding for needed treatments --- the number of people desperately needing medical attention who are denied funding simply because it has run out is staggering. Some people are denied cancer drugs that exist and are available simply because their region doesn't issue those specific drugs. "There's a cure but we won't give it to you because of where you live"
* I do not think that Obama is a horrible human being. I do think that he does have what he feels to be the best interest of the country at heart. I am just nervous about the lack of his experience and some of his alliances. Please understand that because my life is VERY government controlled via the military that it is very scary for me to have a Commander-in-Chief calling the shots who isn't genuinely respectful of the military (I maintain that "support our troops" is easy election year rhetoric --- what really communicates is his (lack of) support of policy
* Yes, I am "fortunate" --- however things didn't fall into my lap. I grew up in a home where my parents struggled desperately to keep a family farm operation afloat. My mom showed me what my parents' adjusted gross income was each year that they have worked the last time I was home and my jaw dropped. Some years when the market was especially bad they barely cleared $8000 (a few years it was less than that) for the YEAR. I grew up never wanting for anything but my parents worked very hard to not spend more than we made -- this meant that eating out was a rare occasion, we didn't buy food that wasn't on sale (I actually didn't realize that some people went into a store and picked out whatever they wanted until I went grocery shopping in 7th grade with Starzs), and we only drove vehicles that we could pay cash for (must I remind you of the '79 chevette? ;) Philip grew up in a home where his parents income was completely dependent upon support of their missions work. He grew up living month-to-month trusting in faith that the Lord would provide. He did ROTC and opted for military service because that was his only option for funding his education as neither he nor his parents had money to pay for tuition. He was an RA in an incredibly abrasive environment simply so he could get through college without going into debt.
Because of our upbringing, Philip and I budget VERY carefully. We prioritize giving (followed by saving). We have been taught and feel that it is important to save and have a reserve for emergencies - we don't think that it is the government's job to rescue us out should the unthinkable occur and realize that it's very risky to bank on this kind of bailout
* I really don't like when people who are against big government are made out to be greedy horrible people (I get that same feeling I did in Ness's class "you are a BAD person"). It's a play on emotion. The truth is that it is important to remember that the wealthy do not hoarde their weath. They are not evil. Infact when you really look at what happens, the wealthy are reinvesting their money and creating more jobs.
- I heard a great illustration the other day about redistribution of wealth. When a person goes to Target, should the person at the cash register look at what they buy and and say "you will be receiving an extra 10% charge to subsidize people who come through the door who are unable to afford all of the things you have in your cart"? Should families with two cars be mandated by the government to donate one of them to someone who is struggling because he/she is unable to afford a car? Would you want to donate some extra money to taxes this year to help more people? Probably not as it is not the most efficient way to do so. . . *and please know I am not writing with scarcasm but with respect --- I'm just trying to highlight some of this and challenge thinking* This kind of thinking is a slippery slope. . .
Just a few thoughts. Not to "win you over" :) because I respect what you believe and agree with much of it. I think we can agreeably disagree. It's the great thing about America. My husband is willing to give his life without even getting to say goodbye or I love you "one last time" so that people can be honest about their political views. I just wanted to clarify where I was coming from a bit (and make the defense that I'm am not a heartless, arrogant individual). I'm sorry for hurting and upsetting you. Thank you for your honesty. I'm glad we have a relationship that has a foundation of trust and respect so that we can have these kind of discussions.
Love you Always Sar,
Joy
To start, I just want to say I don’t claim to know all the answers and I don’t believe that any one person or party has perfect solutions to all the problems we face. Secondly, I want to make it clear that I don’t think Obama is perfect, and I don’t think McCain is a villain. Both sides had good points and both had problems. After saying that, I ask that anyone reading this does so with an open mind. We can all learn new things and change our minds. I am more worried about those who don’t ever change their opinions because to me it indicates that they may not be taking in new information or allowing themselves to really understand the other side of an issue. Call me a “flip-flopper” if you like, but life is complex and I’m just trying to take everything in and make sense of it all. So, if you have more questions than answers at the end of this response, then my mission is accomplished.
There were many issues brought up in this discussion. Many I would love to comment on and many more I would love to bring up, but I lack the time and energy to do all of that right now. As far as healthcare goes, I am in the thick of it every single day at my job. While I am lucky enough to be a nurse in one of the best healthcare systems in the world, I see ethical and moral dilemmas constantly. Each patient is different and each situation is unique as well. But what I find to be the saddest situations of all are people who have no resources, no family, no support, no nothing. What happens to these folks when they are discharged? Where do they go? How do they pay for their medication, their $20,000 angiogram, medical supplies? These are the questions I face with patients each day I go to work.
I absolutely believe in personal responsibility. I also know that life happens and many times you can’t control the events that happen. People lose their jobs, are denied insurance due to “pre-existing conditions” or lose their money in the Wall Street crisis then are diagnosed with cancer, need heart bypass surgery, a baby ends up in the NICU, or one loses a leg to diabetes. When you have a medical bill as huge as the salary of the star player of your favorite football team it isn’t a matter of whether you bought your car on credit or with cash. It isn’t whether you bought that cereal on sale or not. This doesn’t mean it isn’t important to be frugal and fiscally responsible, but financially you’re done. And that’s just the beginning. The physical, mental, emotional and spiritual drain can be worse (I’m sure you see that all the time at work too, Joy).
I don’t think it’s fair to characterize all programs that try to eliminate or minimize the number of uninsured as merely another attempt at a broken nationalized healthcare system. That is not what Barack Obama is proposing (though with our deficit and other huge issues facing our nation we probably won’t see huge reforms in healthcare for another decade or so). What he is proposing is that we allow what’s working to keep working (i.e. I keep my Mayo insurance) and make available to everyone an option that can be affordable. He is all for investing in public health which is HUGE since our society is so focused on managing chronic issues that we fail to fund ways to prevent these expensive problems in the first place (i.e. sex education, immunizations, health education in communities, nutrition education classes, physical activity programs, diabetes awareness). If a little extra in taxes means the SCHIP program can be passed and children will have health insurance then I’m all for it. Oversight and accountability is a must, so is the principle of social justice. At the risk of sounding naïve, I have hope that we can find new solutions to old problems and I think Obama just may be the leader we’ve needed. I think Mayor Bloomberg said that when he was elected to office others judged him harshly on his “lack of experience”. However, for him it meant he didn’t know what he couldn’t do and it opened the doors to so many other possibilities.
Obviously we all have deep and diverse convictions and talents which makes this world so interesting and reinforces the fact that we all need each other. That is why I feel a sense of community is so important. This applies to a small rural area or the global community. To me, our President-elect represents this so much. He and his wife Michelle are huge supporters of national service programs such as Americorp (McCain also said he was a big supporter of this program as well). These programs are win-win initiatives. My husband is currently working as a crew leader doing conservation projects—his experiences and training are invaluable. Though he earns a small living stipend, he also earns education award money that can be used for student loans or furthering his education. Governor Palin’s mockery of Barack Obama’s community organizing experience in her speech at the RNC left a very bad taste in my mouth. I also became very uncomfortable with the divisive nature of her campaigning and her idea (or lack there) of what being Vice President meant.
My feeling on the candidates was summed up well by Colin Powell’s statements on Meet the Press when he gave his endorsement for Barack Obama. Please take time to listen to his thoughtful statements. If you really want to know what Obama stands for please read his book “The Audacity of Hope.” I read it this spring and found him to be an intelligent man with a hopeful, but not unrealistic outlook. I also recommend national public radio. I have found it a refreshing way to learn about politics. The programs on it reveal the human side of many abstract issues. I do have to say how encouraging it is to see President Bush so positive during this transition time. Though President-elect Obama and President Bush have HUGE differences, the peaceful and almost seamless transition in power is such a great example to the rest of the world. Go America! Yes we can!
A few weekends back I saw a church board that read “How would Jesus vote?” A couple things ran through my mind. At first I was totally appalled. Then I thought what was this phrase supposed to mean? Was it implying that there is only one “right” answer? Was this church implying that by voting a certain way I’m doing my Christian duty to support or deny certain legislation? Or was this simply a thought provoking question meant to stir the minds of those who saw it? That same weekend I heard an INCREDIBLE sermon on abortion and voting. The sermon can be found at: http://unknowntraveler.wordpress.com/. The sermon is in the October 2008 Archive and is from October 26th-- “Commitment Sunday.” The main message was this: Jesus is more concerned about what we do rather than how we vote. Maybe we should all ask ourselves what we’re doing to make this world a better place, no matter who the President is…
Thanks for taking the time to read this epic reply!
Lots of love!
~Randi
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